Bitcoin is currently being used as part of the ransom payment scheme in the CryptoLocker Malware scam, and directed at lawyers in British Columbia, Canada. The scheme eventually requires a money-laundering vendor, and so brings bitcoin onto the radar of folks who worry about money laundering. Said people in BC are, of course, inclined to listen to enraged members of the Bar ;-. Thus: technologies which are designed to be attractive nuisances are also attractive to the nuisance-removal people.
If the nuisance starts being life- or wealth-threatening, then it becomes "interesting" to crown attorneys and police forces. It is central planning e. Do you even have a definition of libertarianism? Do you hate left and right libertarians equally?
What about anarcho-capitalists? Or maybe geo-libertarians are the true evil? Force from the top is evil. Bitcoin strikes me as useful in confronting libertarians with the consequences of their theories. It turns out that a truly unregulated market in money is epically boom-and-bust, intensely unequal, full of crooks, a means to make crime pay, and a quick way to lose your shirt. Who'da thunk. With regard to the criminal mining use of malware to mine bitcoins I think this will this will almost completely disappear in the near term.
Due to the changing nature of the complexity of the bitcoin mining process, the ability of commodity hardware to mine a dollar value of bitcoins in a week is so low that mining bitcoins is likely not an efficient use of a compromised computer.
If I were a cyber criminal and I had a couple hundred computers I would likely be able to make more money with the computer sending spam or engaged some other type of fraud click fraud comes to mind but it could be whatever That I think you will see very little of that criminal misuse going forward.
With regard to bitcoins being investment currency. There seams to be an endless legions of investors in the bitcoin thrall and they are all missing the point. The value of bitcoin is going to go up and down but in an unpredictable manner making it a poor investment. However, as a transaction currency it can work very well. If the volatility issue moderates it will have a huge impact in micro transactions and other types of web transactions.
I see it as a potential PayPal killer. NB: The comment this is a reply to is borderline for a yellow card. I'd appreciate it if the visitors would take time out to review the moderation policy; it might save us some annoyance later One of the thing you need to understand when trying to use "untraceables bitcoins" is that every amount is fully traced.
Someone paying with bitcoin a shady site full of child porn will have the transaction from a wallet he uses to a wallet the porn operator uses visible for essentially the entire existence of Bitcoin. Once the Feds unwrap something like Silkroad, they get the number of the wallet where your bitcoin ended, and can trace back all people who sent bitcoins. So the police notices that the transaction chain goes from Silkroad to Kraken, they send a subpoena to Kraken to identify who did the transaction crediting your initial wallet, and you're done.
This is kind of a "money spent on space exploration could have been better spent on more worthwhile things" kind of logical fallacy argument, but I read that the raw computation power used for mining bitcoins is now exa-obscene and, granted, we already waste a lot of monies on video games and horrible movies.
Couldn't we expend that computing power on more worthwhile projects? Anyone have an idea how many protein folding solutions, or controlled fusion simulations, or BEC spin resonance scenarios, etc. You should probably get more acquainted with the concept of "Level 3 Assets" since we taxpayers have assumed such a large stake in them. A Level 3 Asset is priced indirectly by a model, which can be proprietary.
That is, the value of a Level 3 Asset can be pretty much whatever the binary black-box code I wrote say is is, all this is legal and fine with GAAP! Now, during the financial crisis, banks could deposit these things with central banks as a collateral for new loans - which effectively means turning these things into real money. Knowing how the banks operate it is logical that they would hurry up and produce as much as these things that they possibly could while the going was good.
Then deposit at the FED, in return they get proper bonds, that trade on a real exchange, and they are "capitalised" again. If one checks with ISDA, who keeps a sort-of check on the unregulated derivatives market, indeed the "value" of the derivatives increased during and after the financial crisis. My current theory is that bitcoin is designed to cull libertarians from the herd. Get them using a fiat currency, then show them the power of deflation. Your argument makes two claims: 1 Bitcoin makes it harder for governments to control where people spend their money, 2 Bitcoin makes it harder for governments to tax their citizens.
Claim 1 is probably true, as long as the purchases are not illegal donating to wikileaks was not illegal but merely blocked. The US government has been fairly effective at tracing Bitcoins used in illegal transactions. That is, they know you donated to wikileaks, but they can't prevent you without charging you with a crime after the fact. Claim 1 does not imply Claim 2. I've talked to some US banking regulators and they don't think taxing Bitcoin is a serious problem.
In fact when compared with cash or valuable objects such as gold, Bitcoin is far easier to trace and tax. Everything would be easier for the IRS if tax dodgers switched to Bitcoin. The question is not if you can tax Bitcoin, clearly you can, the question is at what point does it make sense to tax Bitcoin. Do you tax each time bitcoins move from one wallet to another? If so at what exchange rate. I worry that you may be confusing the political ambitions of Nakamoto with the actual realities of Bitcoin.
About black market online payments now, here's an interesting overview from Brian Krebs from back in May. For example, one direct effect of the Patriot Act was greater difficulty hiding large transfers of cash in USD. The first order unintended consequence was a drive by the Colombian drug cartels into the Euro. The second-order consequence was new business relationships between the cartels and the 'ndrangheta.
The third-order consequence was increased distribution of cocaine across Europe. You're being more tolerant than I would with a drive-by who's being actively personally insulting. Bitcoin is not not necessarily going to be more computationally expensive to generate. The difficulty could also decrease in the future or it could remain the same as it is now. Also, the electricity is not wasted, it provides integrity and security for the entire bitcoin payment network. How much resources do you think banks spend to keep their deposits safe from hacking and physical theft?
Do you also consider those resources wasted? It's not easier otherwise, everyone would do it. It's maybe cheaper, but it's also illegal and can land you in jail. Mining BTC's on stock computer is also not very effective and the profits will decrease in the future if the difficulty of mining would rise.
Botnets make very small portion of the mining market. As stated above, cpu mining is very ineffective and can in no serious way compete with mining on specialized hardware ASIC chips. Bitcoin lack of regulation is a myth.
You write about china regulating bitcoin in this very article. Bitcoin lacks central authority but this in no way means that it is somehow extempt from our legal framework. Drugs should be legal anyway so i consider drug markets one of the good things bitcoin enabled. Ever tried to ship some illegal weapons via mail service over borders? Bitcoin is like cash. I agree with you that it is relatively easy to avoid paying taxes using cash or bitcoins.
There are two solutions: 1 ban financial privacy, make reporting of every transaction mandatory so it can be taxed properly. Bitcoin actualy helps with this solution as every transaction is already public in blockchain. It makes no sense. If people did more of those activities, there would be no harm as those activities are not limited resources. They are limited so we want them to be utilized effectively. We don't want rich people to squat large areas of land or lucrative buildings in city centers without using them properly.
As a bonus, with limited resources you can easily keep track who owns them and who should pay taxes on them. You also keep the financial privacy. This would be my preffered solution. Bitcoins are created by smart people and there is a sort-of inverted NSA-ish logick in creating anonymous money that has the path the money took embedded into it every time it is "spent". Like placing a GPS chip with memory in every dollar bill, but much cheaper and less prone to whining from the people who support potential terrorists by being against surveillance.
To be honest, I rather think our gracious host may be missing the positive side of experimental currencies, and of tax avoidance measures of all kinds. Experimental currencies are good because they keep the idealists poor and the libertarians are kept thinking. Tax havens or tax dodges are similarly a good thing because they limit how much tax a government can extort.
France is currently re-discovering the Laffer Curve; the UK is a net beneficiary here as quite a few rich French businessmen are decamping to these shores to avoid excessively stupid and greedy taxation. All Bitcoin does is gives the over-taxed a greater plurality of ways of avoiding tax, whilst remaining rich.
If you remove these ways, then two things happen. The aspiring rich quite often simply give up on the idea, and the government then loses these potential tax revenues entirely. Other more criminally minded people go into politics, and the political sphere then starts to resemble modern Russia, where politics, money and criminality are inextricably linked.
It all really comes down to how you keep a government honest, and the only way thus discovered is to allow citizens to legally escape taxation if they but expend some effort to do so. Any other path seems to lead to eventual ruin. I think OGH is getting a tad bored with writing non-stop, and decided to take a break and see what he can flush out of the woodwork. And boy, is it working. This isn't quite the answer to your question, but addresses pieces of it. In fact, "how do we deal with the money from our completely illegal enterprise" is a huge issue, and back in the s the U.
Bitcoin is ideal tool for a task like this because despite the fact that it is "anonymous", as soon as one account become "dirty", all the related accounts can be easily tracked and if some of them is associated with real person somehow then bah! The power figure you are quoting is wrong by a factor of at least It's based on the data on this page:.
In reality some miners will be more or less efficient. This is based on GPU mining, which hardly anyone is doing any more. Most people are using ASICs and a more realistic power figure is Watts per gigahash, and the most efficient units are 0. The Laffer curve is of course unrelated to the matter of tax dodging and tax avoidance. I've been following the Bitcoin saga on and off for over two years now. I have no idea how it keeps going. All the points brought up in the article are the same things I've been seeing sensible people say about Bitcoin from the beginning.
And yet it keeps gaining an odd form of legitimacy. Someone's going to write a hell of a dissertation about it in a decade or two, I think. I don't think it's a deliberate operation to bring down the banks, though. Before the first craze hit it was just a cryptographic toy, a "hey look at this" program. Then the libertarians got a hold of it and made a community around it. It's about then that Bitcoin goes nuts and starts on the boom and bust cycle we see today.
As for the future I'd like it to go down in flames, but every time it has so far it rises again a few months later, like a phoenix born from neckbeards and fedoras. I've given up trying to predict when the inherent problems are going to catch up with it.
Now I'm just hoping my dad doesn't get involved Actually, it looks like I may be mistaken, they appear to be basing this on bitcarbon, which says:. I think the yoyo is very profitable and somebody figured out that no ammount of reality is going to make the true believers go away So every crash is an investment opportunity Even the bankers issuing subprime loans and bundling them as CDOs and similar instruments tried to kid themselves they were helping people buy their homes.
I just snorted my dumb brewed tea. Bitcoin may well not be the answer, but I would very much like a transaction mechanism that is anonymous and not vulnerable to simple theft. I am personally sick and tired of stores collecting my purchasing information.
I don't want to have to go to ATMs to get cash that could be stolen. Those criticising Bitcoin for its 21 million max property have missed a few things. If your design criteria for a currency is a p2p system with no central authority, then the way to bootstrap it leaves you with few options. Halving the reward every four years is a very elegant option, and in some ways the only one that really works. But this is such a complex system that I just don't have the energy to elaborate on it here, since I think I came to this party way too late for anyone to listen.
I have studied Bitcoin extensively for over three years, and I believe it will be as big as the internet in how it will change things. Of course it will bring out scary things, such as assassination markets, but the genie is out of the box, and the benefits are huge compared to the drawbacks. Again, compare it to what people said about the internet when it hit mainstream!
So, the Gini coefficient is high. It is not OUR fault that you guys didn't pay attention until now. But the whole discussion is stupid. Bitcoin is a niche currency, why does it matter if it isn't evenly spread over the land to everyone? I think this will boil down to what the primary terror was for each person in their formative years. If you grow up with weak and ineffectual government, you want someone to come in and protect you from the bandits and corporations that are abusing you.
If you grow up with strong government, you may see them as the problem and want the free market to come in and save you. We'll always be familiar with the failings of the current system and only see the marketing brochure for the new system, not yet knowing what the shortfalls will be until we make the switch.
Bitcoin is also a major Economics fail. With a mildly inflationary currency, there is a really good incentive to invest in new business, expansion, etc - if you just sit on the money, it slowly loses value, but if you invest, you may be able to make money, or at least stay ahead of the inflation curve. With a deflationary currency, there's no longer the incentive to build that new factory, launch that startup, buy shares in a company, take a risk - just sit on the currency and it becomes more valuable for loose definitions of valuable, in the case of Bitcoin.
At least with gold, mining more gold creates some jobs, and the increase in difficulty is probably closer to linear Having said that, starting a competitor is tempting. Just make sure to mine the easy stuff for yourself first, then sell it off as the suckers move in. It's really only the techno-libertarian types that are interested in bitcoin. As a group libertarians tend to be rather conservative when it comes to ways of storing wealth.
You'd find gold and land is much more popular. Or ammunition, with the survivalist types. And while civilization crumbles under the death rays of the evil bitcoin empire.. Mark Zuckerberg alone still holds more money in his piggybank than the peak bitcoin market cap.
I haven't seen anyone mention my favorite nickname for Bitcoin, courtesy the commentariat or possibly the host, Yves Smith at Naked Capitalism: prosecution futures. You said "Laffer curve". I say "crank". Put it another way: we've had 30 years of "trickle down" and I have yet to see any sign of the Gini coefficient diminishing. This may be a feature, not a bug, in your weltanschauung, but I for one would prefer to be an average citizen in a social-democratic utopia than a billionaire cowering behind barbed wire in a hellish kleptocracy.
The BitCoin pattern of repeating peak-and-crash has some interesting implications. Let's say there's two types of buyers: True Believers and Speculators. The True Believers plan to buy and hold until the crypto-currency utopia comes true; the Speculators plan to sell as close to the top as they can.
We start with low-value BitCoins, and assume both types drift in at equal rates. As more people invest, the value starts to climb, drawing in more people in the usual bubble pattern. Then it bursts -- bad news, random fluctuation downward, whatever. The price starts dropping. At this point, the Speculators start to sell, but the True Believers see only cheap coins, and buy instead.
The price bottoms out when all the Speculators have left the market, and the cycle repeats. The whole system acts as a mechanism for the Speculators to extract value. Finally, the Bitcoin buzz has been getting on my tits all week; it was time to strike out.
My hypothesis: when the social elevators are thin enough, capillary forces prevail and wealth actually flows up. If one did computation in a building requiring heating, and if the power was nuclear, then it might be a reasonable way to keep warm at low carbon cost.
As to the rest, I'm still not sure bit coin is money rather than commodity and alarmed at the idea that money is a commodity. Well yes, that would appear to describe Disaster Capitalism as currently practiced in the western world quite cogently. We're in the midst of the biggest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich since the s. Probably since the 19th century. Guessing the CIA released bitcoin to distract bugs like me from gold and silver - get us to sell our metals to keep prices down and replenish gov't stockpiles so they can pay back Germany's gold, then crush the bitcoiners in a burst bubble.
This nerd deleted my comment, and is against free and open source software? I bet you use a mac, fascist. I was just providing the people any easy way to dispose of their coins to fuel the fire that bitcoin can die in. Bitcoin wasn't created with a political agenda, it was created as an easier way to send money online. That's like saying that SMS or Email was created with a political agenda. So are you going to be a wiener and delete this comment again, or try to make actual disscussion?
What are your thoughts on dogecoin? I keep seeing " a computer is not very efficient in mining BitCoins" as an argument against malware mining. The authors seem to be conveniently forgetting that malware ideally does not target "a" computer. It targets "every possible computer accessible". If you get thousands or millions of machines to do something inefficiently, it starts to get much more efficient. Case in point: Google uses thousands upon thousands of relatively cheap rackmounts to do supercomputer-style parallel calculations.
Malware mining is a fabulous deal for the perpetrators: they invest in building the engine, and let all the owners of infected machines pay the bill for it. Hint: this is not the United States, I'm not the government, and you have no absolute right of free speech on this private blog which I pay for out of my own money and run for my own amusement.
If you want to exercise your free speech rights, go get your own blog. Charlie, you really should consider switching from a mac to a computer that respects your freedoms. Use of proprietary technologies like those that come from apple restrict your freedom and don't really allow you to use your device to the fullest. Yes Charlie, definitely switch to one of those distros if you want to spend all your time tuning the operating system and not working While it's true that these operating systems are not the childrens toy equivalent of computers like macs are, most people with at least a fifth of a brain can use one.
I would reccomend trisquel to the more "simple minded". I quit a decade ago; found I prefer an environment that helps me Get Stuff Done, rather than endlessly recompiling kernel modules. Grandmother, eggs, sucking thereof: if granny chooses not to suck eggs because they taste bad and smell rotten, you might consider respecting her choice. Charlie, why would you ever quit doing gods work? Did they nsa pay you to stop fighting for electronic freedom?
Your relatives probably don't wan't you to spend all day smoking pot and playing video games; in some cases they will over-estimate just how much of a bad thing that is. Pretty much every libertarian position can be understood in that frame of restrictive but benevolent authority being the root of all 'real' problems. It's a rare parent who literally tortures their kids, so torture is, at best, not a 'real' issue, not a priority. But many make them do stuff for their health, so mandatory health insurance is a big deal.
Pretty much no parents kill their child with drones, many read their diaries. And so on. So to libertarians, Bitcoin is like wages from a fast food job as opposed to an allowance; lets you buy what you want without someone else having a veto.
Only money that doesn't judge you can be considered entirely yours My sense was that the earlier spike early this year was driven by speculators. Thus the impact of Chinese regulation. The "deflation" argument only bites if there's a full-on bitcoin economy, and I don't think we're any closer to that than we were on bitcoin's first day. One model of "bitcoin success" is as low-friction cash, accepted as alternative currency more or less everywhere.
In this form the fixed supply doesn't matter, because most users are buy-here-sell-there-immediately. The people who are holding big pools are one-time winners, much like anybody who got in on the ground floor of something. People who bought Apple stock in , etc.
I guess the point is that the value of the system is very dependent on external factors. It will wind up fitting in somewhere. This is a boring position to take in a political argument, I know. On the other hand, the unbounded capital cost of mining is pretty damning. Regardless of whether that one carbon article was accurate, it is still true that there's an arms race to burn money on mining. Well, Bitcoin is volatile, at least partly because there aren't many people trading it.
I'm sure there will be many more ups and downs. It will be more interesting to see what it does long term. I think the main problem for it will be that states are likely to outlaw exchange between it and their currencies, like China did.
Other than that you're mainly blaming Bitcoin for crimes commited using it, as they wouldn't otherwise occur. The policy of central banks maintaining a low rate of inflation is not so great if you're not clever enough to do trading in high return, high risk investments. As it is, it is currently very difficult to save money as savings accounts do not pay enough to beat inflation.
In theory a currency with a fixed supply would deflate at exactly the rate of economic growth, which would be harmless and beneficial for savers. Charlie 23 Libertarianism, like Leninism, is an attractive, internally consistent ideology which provides a prescription for achieving a utopian society populated entirely by frictionless perfectly spherical human beings.
Or so it is said That is the problem, as stated by OGH. Now what? Looking at your classification of what should and should not be taxed, I am not sure that I want to find out the consequences of your proposals. Yes, you're correct that land and physical property are a different sort of resource, but I have heard enough stories of the ills arising from a dependence on land taxes. I'm not sure just what you mean by "property". Is it limited to assets fixed to the land, such as a house, or does it at the other extreme include the pen in my pocket?
Are they to be taxed on acquisition, or is there an annual payment? Frankly, having had to deal with some of this sort of thing at the bookkeeping level, I'd rather have an income tax system, as a matter of practical administration. How do you even assess the value of real estate, just as a starting question.
There's quite a few points you make which don't sound crazy. They can be argued about. But when you play your final card, you suddenly look as honest as the poker player who produces five aces. Assumption: The "miners" are physically situated inside the USA's domains. Even of they are now, they won't be if what you suggest looks like happening My hats off to you for having the vast brass stones to fight libertarians on the internet.
I agree completely that BitCoin is ridiculous. I especially wonder if the whole thing is funded on a myopic nerd-boy assumption that people are ready to and should trust algorithms rather than governments. I can't really expand any of my substanitial thoughts now, but let me leave my favorite literary-bitcoin conundrum here:. Was Ellen Ullman's cypherpunk boyfriend described in her amazing memoir "Close to the Machine," a proto-bitcoin guy? She describes him working on crypto-currency Some of us would disagree, profoundly with that statement.
I would have to leave my home of 65 years, because I could not afford the tx. You know what you can do with your suggestion. I actually don't have any particular issue with the underlying concept behind Bitcoin; in fact I think at least two of Charlie's points the underlying ideological basis being dubious at best and the mechanism for determining its worth making no sense whatsoever could be just as fairly applied to the twenty-pound note I just exchanged for some Christmas spirit.
From the off-license. But where it's gone wrong, I feel, is that nearly everyone doing anything serious with it appear to be using it as a get-rich-quick cheme instead of an actual currency. See the ridiculously unpredictable exchange rate. The point about power consumption may be true. The difference seems rather too large to be plausible, but I'm no expert.
And I have no idea if you are. So, cite please. And what does a suitable ASIC cost? I know, in a general sense, what you're talking about. Which is a heck of a lot of kWh. Watts oer gigahash is a useless number to quote. Allow for profit, too. But that company offers deals of up to gigahashes per second. It also takes down the state's ability to wage illegal wars and spy on its citizens. This would be a good thing. How about a pure purchase tax? Which implies that you see a certain equivalence or perhaps prioritise the spying and war thing.
Of course the biggest country to engage in such also has the lease social safety nets Undetectable by any means, IIRC. Please try to remember this - that your parochial state's rules are not universal. The linked article does not measure the Gini coefficient for the Bitcoin economy. It looks at the distribution of Bitcoin amongst wallets.
There is not a one-to-one mapping of wallets to humans. One large wallet may serve thousands of people, for instance - a trading exchange with thousands of clients. And multiple wallets may be owned by an individual, as a method of reducing the risk of loss. I know of no study that measures the real Gini coefficient of the Bitcoin economy. I have no doubt that there are individuals with great personal Bitcoin fortunes, but have no way of knowing how that compares with the traditional economy.
Just to say where I come from on the Bitcoin issue: I'm a practical, selfish American lefty, that is, I prefer some collective social welfare to the idea of having to defend the homestead myself against the hungry masses. I generally favor Bitcoin. I can find nothing in Bitcoin that is incompatible with modern finance and governance except that it removes the capacity of a government to print more money.
And it provides a benefit of a fully transparent ledger of all transactions everywhere. For comparison consider the substantial intersection between libertarians and proponents of Universal Basic Income. I think you are heading into a spherical economist mode of thinking.
A limited supply of digital tokens would only work if they were used for every transaction, so that the value of everything could be counted. And that would mean it would have to be the only medium of exchange. No barter, and no gifts. No unwanted Christmas presents may be sold on eBay. Your idea depends on perpetually perfect knowledge, which is impossible, as we understand physics today.
If I may derail the conversation for a moment, I'd like to point out that OGH has refuted Godwin's Law with that comment, to the point that he has won the argument as Mr. Satoshi subsequent posts clearly show while mentioning a certain Charlie Chaplin lookalike from Austria. I thought BitCoin was a bad idea. I did think it was a form of cognitive dissonance for my fellow libertarians to blast fiat currency as worthless paper, then embrace money that consists of nothing more than 1's and 0's.
And what is to stop other private entities from designing their own currency systems at will? Money ceases to have value when it is no longer scarce. Doesn't make much less sense than embracing currency that consists of rare, aesthetically pleasing but not ultimately very useful metal, though. Not if you're deluding yourself it's any less of a fiat currency, anyway.
A little over half of all possible BTC have been mined so far. Imagine those who currently hold those BTC just hold onto them until all BTC have been mined, and don't do any further mining. They just sit on their massively deflationary asset, like you DO when you have a massively deflationary asset.
Now imagine that everyone, every single person on Earth, simultaneously decides to go with BtC for their transactions. Since the people holding the current half are just sitting on them, the rest of the world has to mine, distribute, and then use the remaining half of the BTC space, to run the world's economy. Assume that by the time the BTC space is mined out, the entire world economy is being denominated entirely in BTC itself.
In this sense, BTC bugs and goldbugs are pretty much hoping for the same thing. If their little pet boutique currency becomes a dominant currency, then the demand for the currency goes WAY up, making it massively deflationary even beyond any internal deflationary nature the currency may have baked in. They are hoping for everyone else to get suckered into the market they have already stockpiled.
This hasn't really happened with BTC. What I learned about statistics and probability also puts me ahead of some politicians. Pretty much all currency has no real value in itself, the value comes from other people being willing to trade things for it. It problem comes with money supply, and the ability to increase it by fiat.
Libertarians have concerns with governments being able to create money at will, and feel that gold is more reliable since it is difficult to increase the supply rapidly. Though that has problems of its own, which we saw in the US in the 19th century with the whole gold vs. I suggest to you that the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention the families of all the western combatants who dies or were maimed, would be more than happy to make that trade.
I'm a libertarian, and I'm one of those who thinks the hype around bitcoin is silly. I'm all for private currencies, but the price of bitcoin is nonsense - pure speculation. And since you mention basic income, I'm one of the libertarians who supports that too, for various reasons.
Though I know others who think it is the worst idea ever. One interesting angle is that the time required to confirm a Bitcoin transaction as part of the blockchain imposes a time limit on transactions of the kind envisaged by a Tobin tax - I wonder about the ratio of wasteful computation used in bitcoin mining compared to high speed trading in conventional stock and currency markets.
Looking at Coinbase, the VC-backed bitcoin to dollars exchange company, they make it about as easy to sign up as etrade - somewhat cumbersome, and requiring bank and credit card details, as well as a US SSN. Possibly more than are alive today, if we allow for the millions slaughtered in the 20th century by governments.
Well, they will run out of coins to mine in the foreseeable future, correct? And I think the inherently deflationary nature of bitcoins will kill them off as anything other than an exchange medium, and that will also keep them volatile.
And it seems that they can be tracked. What I would worry about is the next one, something that isn't inherently deflationary perhaps mildly inflationary? Frankly, I expect a better grade of rant from you, even if I think you are wrong. Or will the current trilogy put you into an even darker mood?
The problem is that the banks create money by fiat too, so which is to be master? So far it's the banks most of the time, which doesn't help normal people much. Bitcoin is a piece of software which tries to implement a particular SFnal future. One in which the world currency is de-centralized, deflationary, and all early bitcoin adopters own their own planetoids, and all visitors are automatically charged for the air they breath.
Thing is, the real world is more complicated than that. Assuming Bitcoin did manage to become an important currency, countries would naturally try to regulate it. In 30 years, by the time bitcoin mining has slowed right down the legal system will be fully caught up to the internet. Bitcoin tries to make its code the law as Lessig used to say , but the law can certainly affect its code. The law could, for example, require that bitcoin be changed to stop increasing the difficulty of mining new blocks.
Then bitcoin is suddenly an inflationary currency. This would be a hard fork in the block chain, but one enforced by financial regulators. Miners would be tracked down and forced to comply. Some would perhaps go underground and run the deflationary bitcoin network on TOR hidden services. Lots of possible ways it could play out.
That's only one scenario, covering one of the many problems with Bitcoin. So it seems to me that Bitcoin should be a gold mine for Science Fiction authors, if nothing else.. It's not Bitcoin; it's a different type of cryptocurrency, designed to promote a different political agenda -- intsterstellar colonization in a no-FTL, no-relativistic-travel universe.
First let me say that i'm no expert on taxes and related laws so consider this as my amateur opinion derived from the current state of affairs and i'm open to constructive critique. Also let me apologize to other readers for this slightly offtopic comment as i thing it is only remotely related to bitcoin. When thinking about how to make a good tax system i consider several points: 1 what is the purpose of taxes, 2 how much should we pay and 3 how to best collect them.
If you own such resources, you should utilize them for the benefit of the whole society, earn money for the services you provide using them and pay taxes. If you fail to earn enough you should sell the resources to someone else as it means that you are not using them effectively enough. Second purpose is to fund government and services it provides. This can also be accomplished by other means state owned companies come to mind Third purpose is to to some extent help decrease differences in wealth distribution among people.
But how high should it be exactly? I can't answer that. I'd like effective government which provides socialized education, healthcare, welfare, which supports culture and sport activities and other more basic services like infrastructure building, law enforcement, justice system, defense etc. The problem today is that there is no tax limit.
Governments are constantly increasing taxes and introducing new taxes to compensate for their own inefficiencies, the lack of economic growth and their inability to properly collect taxes. I think that government fiscal responsibility should be part of the constitution. If government fails to reach balanced budget it should decrease its own spending and not increase taxes. System we have today is far from that.
It basically depends on the honesty of every citizen to report his income and tax it. Of course the tax office do some checks so if you buy a house with no reported income they'll probably go after you. But generally for large companies it is very easy to avoid paying taxes using tax heavens, shell companies, hollywood accounting, paying for bogus consultant services, using bitcoin etc. This is IMO not sustainable and fair system.
Also there are too many taxes. From ethical point of view taxes are very questionable. I can agree to pay honest tax from my income or property, but taxing my habits like smoking or drinking? Or money transactions and sales? Or whatever random activity someone in the government dislikes? This is IMO too much. I talked about scarce resources - the good thing about them is that they are scarce. Some central authority can keep track of them and their owners.
If we payed taxes from them, they would be hard or impossible to avoid. The payment should be annual and progressive. Tax from land needed for personal living should be very low or even zero, but if you own big industrial complex you should pay much more. There could be other factors to determine the correct amount - for example how lucrative the resource is land in countryside is cheaper than in city center etc. But again, don't expect exact amounts from me, there are many things that must be considered and i don't imagine that i know them all.
Also i mentioned houses and other property in my previous post. That was probably a mistake as houses are no scarce resources, the land below them is. So the houses and other physical property like the pen in your pocket you mentioned don't fit well in my tax scheme and should be extempt:. Off-topic: Charlie, please bring Freya back. She was way funnier than Neptune's Brood protagonists. Curiously history does NOT support the assertion that the modern nation state is more violent; today you are far less likely to die by violence state-administered or otherwise than you were in the 18th century.
The difference appears to be the ubiquity of violence in those days, arguably from the absence of a state enforcing its monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Thank you, Herr Weber. It would appear then that a stateless society does not reduce violence but rather shifts violence from a relatively few incidents of mass-produced tragedies to many more artisanal, bespoke, hand-crafted tragedies. Charlie, You must like stirring up the hornets nest. Between this and your comments on space colonization, I'm surprised the Promethean awards even list your books.
Anyway, to all those that said bitcoin mining via malware isn't that profitable comments 16, 28, 42 and 53 , have you ever heard the phrase "stolen goods are never sold at a loss? I agree with you mostly, but want to point out that there is no need to change the modern western taxation process in any way to accommodate the use of Bitcoin in place of government issued currency.
Imagine if Bitcoin were "The Coin of the Realm", that is, you are paid in it and you use it for most of your purchases. My government would simply require my employer to withhold a percentage prior to the delivery of my pay and to provide accurate payroll books to the revenue service on pain of legal action. Far easier for a government to regulate a thousand companies than audit a million taxpayers. And for the minority that work "off the books", a system of self-reporting, audits and penalties for tax cheats will suffice.
I've had reservations about Bitcoin, mostly related to the long term issues of deflationary currency as medium of exchange, however, it may actually make sense as a store of value. I am interested in the development of demurrage currencies like Freicoin, although I think the problematic thing would would be in mass adoption. Bitcoin may have enough advantages first mover, transaction cost, non-fiat to offset its theoretical structural disadvantage.
I guess we'll have to see. Regarding the energy costs of mining, the current lowest-economically-feasible calculated by the ability to breakeven from mining ASIC is 1. The flip side of all this mining compute power is that it's economically undesirable to use zombie networks for mining vs other more profitable ventures.
These are dependent mostly on the questionably anonymous properties of Tor and cash. What we're seeing now like the China regulation you started out with! Bitcoin-to-Bitcoin transactions, by protocol, are completely traceable as every single transaction is stored in the blockchain forever.
The same techniques used to bring down something like Silk Road and things like existing CP operations will be just as effective against other illegal markets. To me, Dogecoin points to the future - a world where it's ridiculously easy to instantiate and use semi-private Rushkoffian barter currencies, which nicely sidesteps a lot of the unsolved macro-economic issues.
Start with a low rate tax on real estate owned plus a large allowance a few million or so applicable only to your primary residence and associated farmland. Every year raise the real estate tax rate and the income tax personal allowance. Lower the allowance for your personal residence as property prices fall.
While income tax is in theory progressive it is also much easier to game than a property tax. Beyond a certain point tax avoidance turns it regressive. More to the point, it's fundamentally wrong. The basic purpose of taxation is to fund government expenditure, so any equitable system of taxation should raise no more than is required to balance the budget after allowing for interest and repayments on borrowings.
While bitcoin supporters tend to hate the idea of inflation, there are others coins that have inflation built in to encourage spending -- a kind of progressive version of bitcoin. There's something fundamentally wrong in using an object of speculation as the exchange currency, in that when it's going deflationary the velocity slows or stops as people start speculating rather than spending it.
I've had this argument with people who are serious Libertarian to the Extropian extreme, and most don't get it, and the ones that do tend to be more concerned with the political agenda Bitcoin was aimed at I think, and Charlie is suggesting. I think this makes that set of people incompetent to plan an economy 2. There may well be deeper economist-capable serious L's out there. Szabo and May aren't on the list of those I've had this discussion with. Thanks for this rant.
Up to now I was open-minded and mildly curious about Bitcoin; after reading this I think Bitcoin is obsolete. Main point that did it for me is that Bitcoin appears to promote hoarding instead of getting things done. IMHO money should undergo inflation at the same rate as society produces goods. I'm not convinced by that argument either.
I can't find the original source now :- but I've seen it argued that, since the invention of income tax, inflation is a mechanism whereby governments take more of your money, whilst pretending to take less. See also "fiscal drag" in this context.
I don't think so. The purpose of taxation is suppress certain economic behavior and favor other. That's way it's called "Steuer" in German, which means "steer". It's also a way to redistribute wealth. Not according to the entire history of taxation of the UK, what with medieval parliaments voting kings the money to keep him in the correct style and defend the nation, through to income taxes being introduced to fight Napoleon.
But anyway, both definitions are not mutually exclusive. The UK government currently collects taxes so that it can spend it on people's pensions, for instance. Growing and selling narcotics is economic activity. By your argument any sensible government should allow and regulate this activity since only by doing so can they tax, and hence direct it. Do you think one of them will give a shit redact if you like about the carbon footprint of bitcoin mining, contemplating this amusing fact on the wooden planks on his yacht near St.
In another corner some traders from a shadow bank, wondering about a "utter lack of regulation". And of course our corrupt governments, always longing for "stable governance". All of them feasting on money backed by seven billion happy believers Andreas Vox writes: I don't think so. It has many, many possible purposes, and people tend to see the ones they disagree with when they're objecting to it.
Liberals scream about wars funded, and tax breaks for oil companies; conservatives, about wealth transfer to the poor etc. Until the recent medicare increases, California was roughly 4 parts school funding, 1 part prison funding, 1 part roads funding, 1 part medicare, 1 part everything else. One can have detail arguments across the liberal-conservative-libertarian spectra about any parts of those, but those are all widely acknowledged to be legitimate things the government should fund.
Several of the contentions seem to fit just as well with cash. It has long been preferable to do dubious things like tax evasion and paying for immoral things whether pornography, sexual favours or hit-people using cash. I kind of doubt that Bitcoin is, in practice, as anonymous as cash. The complaints about energy footprint don't seem to fit well with what's actually going on.
So it appears to me that something's off with the numbers here. The ASIC-based miners seem to get several orders of magnitude of improved hash rates, which seems like it isn't being accounted for. Further, I don't think that the "stolen computing infrastructure" part is of much ongoing relevance. If Bitcoin difficulty rates go up further, that drops the profitability from pennies per day to pennies per year, and will make a botnet builder look for activities with higher payoffs.
At some point, forwarding spam is more worthwhile. Governments, the powerful, and the rich which tend to end up being the same people tend towards draconian control and oversight which both stifles any real freedom and turns everyone into practical slaves. Anything that unsettles them helps to slow that process; maybe even reverse. This is a good thing, no matter the strawman of OGH as to what might happen if it went all the way in the other direction.
Since they tended to be techies, and the people piling in now tend to be libtards, that constitutes a transfer of cold hard cash from the libtards to the techies. Eventually either the government will screw up bitcoins, or people will realise there is no inherent value tulips and the libtards will end up holding nothing.
Thus I approve of them giving the techies their money in exchange for nothing. Now THAT would be disruptive - unseating bankers from their place wallowing in the trough I think there are other good reasons why it's a good idea to legalize narcotics and regulate the market. I would use a more direct regulation though licensed sellers, procedures to bring medical help to users , not through taxes.
Why would a democratic government want to have a budget surplus? Any gains in the public sector are balanced by losses in the private sector, and people who experience losses are poor voters. Government debt means private wealth. If you wish to level that, it's easier to allow inflation. And the computer would be pretty much visibly infected and locked up at full cycle, i. The question becomes: will this botnet-controlled computer be worth more to me as a bitcoin miner or as a spambot?
I think your understanding of society is lacking. Societies tend to be a little more complex than a "tug of war". Also, why do you think taxes are evil? Are you against roads, schools and social security? What about laws? Do you want to see them enforced? Oh there are so many many many many many problems with just property taxes Plus not everybody owns property, and it makes owning property in retirement practically impossible. If you're stupid enough to have a system whereby the government can't borrow or print money itself, then the prudent thing to do is for a government to run up reserves of capital so they can deal with emergencies.
Anything else would be a potential problem. One of the problems we're facing is we're in a recession after decades of imbecilic fiscal management during which trillions of dollars have been transferred to smaller and smaller numbers of private citizens all while reducing the ability of the governments to deal with collapses in demand.
After a bit of thought:- 1 Agreed, but I think the argument about taxes still stands actually, making it a source of tax revenue rather than a cost in terms of police time etc works for both our arguments. Wait, aren't the reliance on property taxes in local government in the USA causing problems with stuff, e. Since you're quoting me, you're "preaching at the choir"; Andreas is the one who's arguing for a system where taxation is used as a means of "punishing bad activity" rather than of funding spending programmes.
They stole Bitcoin computers, along with power sources, graphics cards, and assorted supplies. Five days later, on December 10, the Borealis Data Center told police that someone had tried and failed to break into their facility at Asbru, attempting to disable the alarm by gluing the security sensors. The police seemed slow to investigate, and the burgled companies preferred that the crimes stay quiet. Any talk of a heist would be bad for business. Stefansson and the rest of the gang might have stopped there.
They already had enough computers to set up their own small Bitcoin mine and enjoy the proceeds. But making money in cryptocurrency requires size and speed: It takes a lot of computing power to solve and package data, and the only people who get paid are the ones who crack the complex equations first. In Bitcoin mining, every second counts. Then Stefansson got a call from someone he had studied computer science with at the university. The warehouse at the local AVK Data Center suddenly needed more electricity—a lot more electricity—for something called Bitcoin.
Stefansson drove from Akureyri and studied the small metal building in the middle of nowhere. The mine was only six days old. The lone police officer patrolling the area had gone home for the night. And a window way up high had conveniently been left open, to let the frigid air cool the red-hot computers.
This being Iceland, someone had even left a ladder nearby. Stefansson asked Matthias Karlsson to buy a vehicle, and the conscientious day care worker came through with a cheap blue van, purchased on the Icelandic version of eBay. Ten days after their first job, Stefansson and Viktor the Cutie drove to the data center, where Stefansson climbed the ladder, slipped through the open window, and landed, catlike, on the concrete floor.
In their excitement, they took the fastest route: the Whale Fjord Tunnel, a 3. In court, the Cutie tried to use his love of tattoos as an alibi: A tattoo artist testified that Viktor had spent the entire night in bed with her. What came back was… nothing. No data. Not even a connection. This would never happen in Iceland! The owner called the police, who reviewed footage from a CCTV camera at a nearby hardware store. It clearly showed the used blue van Karlsson had bought.
The police ran the plates and arrested Stefansson and Karlsson. In their gentle Icelandic style, they placed the suspects in dormitory-style cells in their hometowns, then brought them in for questioning. The walls are covered with images of the Northern Lights and the buds of Icelandic flowers poking up through the snowy tundra.
Ottensen was impressed with how nice the suspects seemed. He had no idea his information would lead to a burglary, and they used him. Questioned by police, Stefansson and Karlsson insisted that they had absolutely nothing to do with the burglary. But the Bitcoin thieves were far from finished. While being detained in the Borgarnes investigation, Karlsson lost his job as a day care worker. Deep in debt, and with a child on the way, he blamed Stefansson.
He was captured after he and his accomplices posted a photo on Instagram left. On the day after Christmas, cell phone records show, the gang drove together to the former naval base at Asbru to try their luck at hitting the Borealis Data Center a second time.
This time they tried to climb through a window. The alarm sounded, and they fled. But the gang was learning as they went. One night in late , a man named Ivar Gylfason received a strange phone call. Not long after, Gylfason was contacted by a relative of his ex-girlfriend. The gang had presented him with a plan for repayment: Get Ivar to spill security details about the Advania mine and the interest on your debt will be forgiven.
The relative offered Gylfason cash in exchange for information about the mine. When Gylfason declined, he was escorted into a dark Mazda outside his house. He recognized one of the men in the car—Sindri Stefansson—who sat alongside a man wearing a hoodie, and another who spoke in a gruff Eastern European accent.
If he did not comply, they told him, he would be hurt. Over the course of two or three moonlit meetings, Gylfason told the gang everything he knew about the Advania data center: the location of the security cameras, the specifics of the anti-theft systems, how security shifts were organized. He also provided the thieves with guard uniforms and the alarm code. On January 16, , the job commenced.
Stefansson had been tracking the routine of the security guard who would be on duty that night. But before he could make a move, the gang got a lucky break: The guard suddenly raced home, diverted by diarrhea, and never returned.
With scarves covering their faces, Karlsson and his brother drove up and started loading the computers into their car. At first, police had little to go on. The computers were gone, and there was no way to trace if they were being used to mine cryptocurrency. So he and his team turned to more old-fashioned forms of technology: Using telephone data, rental car records, bank accounts, and wiretaps, they were able to connect the gang with Ivar Gylfason, the security guard they had blackmailed.
Only two weeks after the heist, the arrests began. Gylfason, apprehended at his home, confessed to his role. That same day, police arrested Karlsson and his brother. They also descended on Stefansson, who had sold his home and was preparing to move to Spain with his wife and kids.
In a pocket of his jeans they found a crudely drawn map of the Advania data center. They also seized his iPhone, which was shipped to Holland to be unlocked. Rental car forms showed he had rented the second car used in the Advania theft. Stefansson was thrown in solitary for a month and grilled repeatedly by police, who pressured him to reveal the location of the stolen computers.
Officers from every police district in Iceland combed the island, searching for the computers. They fanned out in squad cars, boats, and helicopters. They followed leads as far away as China. They raided a Bitcoin mine owned by a Russian couple they suspected of being the thieves. And they descended on buildings where electricity usage spiked to Bitcoin levels. Stefansson denied any involvement in the heists. But he had made a critical error. His iPhone, unlocked by police, contained a road map of the crimes.
The case might have ended there, an obscure series of crimes in a cold and remote country. In Iceland, it is not a crime to stage a prison break: The law recognizes that inmates, like all human beings, are naturally entitled to freedom, and thus cannot be punished for seeking it. The prison staff advised Stefansson that, technically, he was a free man: The order had expired at 4 p.
By chance, Stefansson was on the same flight as Katrin Jakobsdottir, the prime minister of Iceland, who was sitting a few rows in front of him. The police, assisted by Interpol, mobilized in an international manhunt.
But Stefansson managed to stay one step ahead. From Sweden, he traveled to Denmark, then to Germany by train, and finally to Amsterdam by car. While on the lam he wrote a letter that was published in Frettabladid, detailing what he claimed were human rights violations by the police.
Then, once again, Stefansson screwed up. The trio brazenly posed for a picture in front of the De Bijenkorf department store wearing triumphant smiles and sunglasses. Haffi posted the image on Instagram and tagged it teamsindri. Two hours later, Stefansson was arrested by the Amsterdam police. He spent the next 19 days in a Dutch prison before being extradited to Iceland to stand trial. Only Stefansson chose to show his face to the cameras.
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It could have a total of watts of total power consumption. It also uses 6 razors to connect each video card to the PCI Express ports and invest on a new motherboard that can run all of those at the same time. It also got a mining rig case to hold everything.
Check Price at Amazon. This miner does 14 Terra hashes a second and uses watts. The Bitcoin difficulty continues to rise, so in time you will get less and less of Bitcoin. But the one thing that can balance the difficulty and how much Bitcoin you mined is — if the price of the Bitcoin continues to increase. A number said that Bitcoin is no longer profitable , but if you have the right gear, you will still find this profitable.
In fact, a number still do this because they earn from it. If you want to learn more about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies , feel free to check our homepage. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Home Bitcoin About Contact.
Sign in. Log into your account. Password recovery. Forgot your password? Get help. Is Bitcoin mining profitable? Should I do it too? Contents 1 Is Bitcoin mining profitable? Go to top. The card will pay for itself in less than 10 months. But take note the power consumption is out of the calculation. However, according to Evangelho, this is profitable. Check Price-Buy Here. So, this is still profitable if you invest in a powerful miner.
The more computing power, the more bitcoin you will mine. The lower the energy consumption the lower your monthly costs. Longevity is determined by the production quality of the machine. It makes no sense to buy cheaper or seemingly more efficient machines if they break down after a few months of running.
One useful way to think about hardware is to consider what price BTC would have to fall to in order for the machines to stop being profitable. You want your machine to stay profitable for several years in order for you to earn more bitcoin from mining than you could have got by simply buying the cryptocurrency itself.
Unfortunately most older machines are now no longer profitable even in China. The Bitmain S9 has been operational since and interestingly enough they are still being used in Venezuela and Iran where electricity is so cheap that it outweighs the risk of confiscation.
There may, eventually, be more reputable sources of sub 2 cents electricity as the access to solar and wind improves in North America. For the individual miner, the only hope of competing with operations that have access to such cheap electricity is to send your machines to those farms themselves.
Not many farms offer this as a service though. These days, every miner needs to mine through a mining pool. Whether you are mining with one machine, or several thousand, the network of Bitcoin mining machines is so large that your chances of regularly finding a block and therefore earning the block reward and transaction fees is very low. With one block per 10 mins they may have to wait 16 years to mine that one block. The oldest two pools are Slush Pool and F2Pool.
Here comes the science part…. Pool fees are normally 2. Choosing the right mining pool is very important, as you will receive your mined bitcoin sent from the pool payouts every day. An often overlooked facet of mining profitability is the fees one pays to sell the Bitcoin one mines. If you are a small time miner, you may have to sell your coins on a retail exchange like kraken or Binance.
Sometimes your fees are low but sometimes your fees are high - it really just depends on the fee structure of the exchange and the state of the orderbook at the moment. However, if you are a professional miner like F2 or Bitmain, you likely have really advantageous deals with OTC desks to sell your coins at little to no fees - depending on the state of the market. Some miners are even paid above spot price for their coins.
If you think you have what it takes be mine profitably, we suggest you make sure first by using our mining profitability calculator. Bitcoin farms that operate at scale use these advantages to maximize their returns. As the difficulty of mining bitcoin increases, and the price lags behind, it is becoming harder and harder for small miners to make a profit. It all comes down to scale and access to cheaper prices. When people enter the space, without prior relationships, they struggle to compete with established mining operations.
Bitcoin mining is starting to resemble similar industries as more money flows in and people start to suit up. With increased leverage, margins are lower across the whole sector. Soon, large scale miners will be able to hedge their operations with financial tooling to lock in profits, whilst bringing in USD denominated investments like loans or for equity.
As mining becomes more professional , it will make things even harder for DIY miners. If you have put in the effort to learn about mining, and you have found a location with low cost electricity for your machines, then you still need to consider where to store the bitcoin that you mine. It is possible to mine direct from the pool to an exchange , but we recommend you keep your bitcoin in a wallet where you have access to the private keys.
No, and in the case of Bitcoin, it almost never was. There was a time where one could profitably mine Bitcoin with GPUs, but again…today, you really must have an ASIC and a deal witha power company to make any money mining Bitcoin in The average home miner is unlikely to recoup the cost of mining hardware and electricity.
Profiting on your own is highly unlikely. The situation may improve in the future once ASIC mining hardware innovation reaches the point of diminishing returns. That, coupled with cheap, hopefully sustainable power solutions that retail customers can access in some shape or form, may once again make Bitcoin mining profitable to small individual miners around the world.
If small miners can re-enter the network it greatly increases decentralization and supports the original intentions of Satoshi Nakamoto even further. Disclaimer: Buy Bitcoin Worldwide is not offering, promoting, or encouraging the purchase, sale, or trade of any security or commodity.
Buy Bitcoin Worldwide is for educational purposes only. Every visitor to Buy Bitcoin Worldwide should consult a professional financial advisor before engaging in such practices. Buy Bitcoin Worldwide, nor any of its owners, employees or agents, are licensed broker-dealers, investment advisors, or hold any relevant distinction or title with respect to investing. Buy Bitcoin Worldwide does not promote, facilitate or engage in futures, options contracts or any other form of derivatives trading.
Buy Bitcoin Worldwide does not offer legal advice. Any such advice should be sought independently of visiting Buy Bitcoin Worldwide. Only a legal professional can offer legal advice and Buy Bitcoin Worldwide offers no such advice with respect to the contents of its website. Buy Bitcoin Worldwide receives compensation with respect to its referrals for out-bound crypto exchanges and crypto wallet websites.
Popular Exchanges. Coinbase High liquidity and buying limits Easy way for newcomers to get bitcoins "Instant Buy" option available with debit card.
Of course, the value of BTC can fluctuate wildly. In many instances, high inflation of fiat currencies might mean that you are able to reach relative profitability sooner. Then, there are additional, complicated questions to ask yourself. For instance, do you plan on using BTC mining rewards immediately to purchase things? Do you HODL crypto in hopes of higher values later on? Do you want to immediately convert back to fiat? Bitcoin has a mining reward that is designed to reduce by half at certain blocks.
In , Bitcoin miners receive By the end of May , the next halving event should occur. When this happens, the mining reward will only be 6. Considering general, long-term costs and profitability featured in the section above are important. Still, people want to understand what profitability looks like in the short-term. The simple answer is that BTC profitability as of late April is bleak. This is due to the relatively low value of BTC when compared to that of the previous bull market of Of course, this could always change at any point in time if the value of BTC were to increase.
Note that by changing to a different mining rig, the results will vary but just slightly. The Antminer S9 has a higher hash rate Fees with this can vary, but one percent is considered to be standard. Finally, the cost of electricity is the most vital expense to factor in. If we look at states within the US, for example, net returns or losses depend heavily on these rates.
Based upon April BTC prices, it would take some time to get any return on investment. Thus, it would be nearly impossible to reach profitability in Hawaii, even if the value of BTC increases significantly. If a bull run occurs, those that were able to successfully mine BTC will have a chance to get a return.
Still, this can be difficult to predict. Still, there is always potential that BTC value could return to previous highs, making mining profitable in the long-term. A beginner's walkthrough for Dogecoin Mining. See what it takes to get started mining BlitzPredict is a blockchain sports betting platform which aggregates odds from several markets to Part meme, part functional token, dogecoin is like the class clown who got kicked out of school but who ended up becoming a billionaire anyway.
This means that a mining farm in Russia will pay half as much for the electricity you would mining at home in the USA. In practical terms. These days there are several hardware manufacturers to choose from. The price of hardware varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and depends largely on how low the energy use is for the machine vs the amount of computing power it produces.
The more computing power, the more bitcoin you will mine. The lower the energy consumption the lower your monthly costs. Longevity is determined by the production quality of the machine. It makes no sense to buy cheaper or seemingly more efficient machines if they break down after a few months of running. One useful way to think about hardware is to consider what price BTC would have to fall to in order for the machines to stop being profitable.
You want your machine to stay profitable for several years in order for you to earn more bitcoin from mining than you could have got by simply buying the cryptocurrency itself. Unfortunately most older machines are now no longer profitable even in China. The Bitmain S9 has been operational since and interestingly enough they are still being used in Venezuela and Iran where electricity is so cheap that it outweighs the risk of confiscation.
There may, eventually, be more reputable sources of sub 2 cents electricity as the access to solar and wind improves in North America. For the individual miner, the only hope of competing with operations that have access to such cheap electricity is to send your machines to those farms themselves. Not many farms offer this as a service though.
These days, every miner needs to mine through a mining pool. Whether you are mining with one machine, or several thousand, the network of Bitcoin mining machines is so large that your chances of regularly finding a block and therefore earning the block reward and transaction fees is very low.
With one block per 10 mins they may have to wait 16 years to mine that one block. The oldest two pools are Slush Pool and F2Pool. Here comes the science part…. Pool fees are normally 2. Choosing the right mining pool is very important, as you will receive your mined bitcoin sent from the pool payouts every day.
An often overlooked facet of mining profitability is the fees one pays to sell the Bitcoin one mines. If you are a small time miner, you may have to sell your coins on a retail exchange like kraken or Binance. Sometimes your fees are low but sometimes your fees are high - it really just depends on the fee structure of the exchange and the state of the orderbook at the moment. However, if you are a professional miner like F2 or Bitmain, you likely have really advantageous deals with OTC desks to sell your coins at little to no fees - depending on the state of the market.
Some miners are even paid above spot price for their coins. If you think you have what it takes be mine profitably, we suggest you make sure first by using our mining profitability calculator. Bitcoin farms that operate at scale use these advantages to maximize their returns. As the difficulty of mining bitcoin increases, and the price lags behind, it is becoming harder and harder for small miners to make a profit. It all comes down to scale and access to cheaper prices.
When people enter the space, without prior relationships, they struggle to compete with established mining operations. Bitcoin mining is starting to resemble similar industries as more money flows in and people start to suit up. With increased leverage, margins are lower across the whole sector.
Soon, large scale miners will be able to hedge their operations with financial tooling to lock in profits, whilst bringing in USD denominated investments like loans or for equity. As mining becomes more professional , it will make things even harder for DIY miners. If you have put in the effort to learn about mining, and you have found a location with low cost electricity for your machines, then you still need to consider where to store the bitcoin that you mine.
It is possible to mine direct from the pool to an exchange , but we recommend you keep your bitcoin in a wallet where you have access to the private keys. No, and in the case of Bitcoin, it almost never was. There was a time where one could profitably mine Bitcoin with GPUs, but again…today, you really must have an ASIC and a deal witha power company to make any money mining Bitcoin in The average home miner is unlikely to recoup the cost of mining hardware and electricity.
Profiting on your own is highly unlikely. The situation may improve in the future once ASIC mining hardware innovation reaches the point of diminishing returns. That, coupled with cheap, hopefully sustainable power solutions that retail customers can access in some shape or form, may once again make Bitcoin mining profitable to small individual miners around the world. If small miners can re-enter the network it greatly increases decentralization and supports the original intentions of Satoshi Nakamoto even further.
Disclaimer: Buy Bitcoin Worldwide is not offering, promoting, or encouraging the purchase, sale, or trade of any security or commodity. Buy Bitcoin Worldwide is for educational purposes only. Every visitor to Buy Bitcoin Worldwide should consult a professional financial advisor before engaging in such practices.
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